Early career journeys in academia and beyond - Fola Ogungbemi, Currenta
Happy 2026, and welcome to Chemical Journeys Season 2!
In this episode, I speak with Dr. Fola Ogungbemi, Senior Expert in Product Compliance at Currenta.
Fola and I talk about his career journey so far, from student in ecotoxicology to senior regulatory consultant. We discuss experiences of early career scientists finding their next steps after completing a PhD, adapting to working in different sectors, the importance of staying open for continuous growth and learning, and the value of mentorship and support along the way.
Fola also shares some of his personal experiences of relocating to multiple cities, finding friends and community, and his adventures as a DJ. We talk about Fola's journey with the Society of Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry (SETAC), and the part that the organisation has played in his development. Fola also reflects on his Christian faith and how this shapes his outlook and approach to life.
Fola Ogungbemi, PhD | LinkedIn
DJ with a PhD (@djfolaflo) • Instagram photos and videos
SETAC Europe 36th Annual Meeting
Prefer to read? Here is a transcript:
Chris: 00:02
Hello everyone, and welcome to the Chemical Journeys Podcast. Today I'm speaking with Dr. Afolarin Ogungbemi. But people call you Fola, right?
Fola: 00:43
Yeah.
Chris: 00:44
And you're a senior expert in product compliance at Currenta. So thanks for joining me.
Fola: 00:50
Thanks a lot, Chris, for the opportunity to be here today.
Chris: 00:53
So we've known each other for quite a few years now. We keep bumping into each other at SETAC, and I've always had great conversations with you at SETAC and at various other meetings as well. And I thought it would be great for us to have a chat on this podcast. And I normally start things off by inviting my guests just to give a bit of information about their background and their career journey. So please.
Fola: 01:18
Yeah, thanks a lot, Chris, once again for the introduction. And for me, it's a big opportunity to be here with you on the Chemical Journeys Podcast, and I appreciate the opportunity. But I have lived in Germany, I think, for the last 11 years. And but not only in Germany, but I would also say more about that. So I've lived in different other countries and cities within Europe. My background started from the University of Ibadan in Nigeria, also in the city of Ibadan, that's where I grew up. And there I studied chemistry for my bachelor's degree. And after chemistry, I wanted to study abroad, to do a master's degree and PhD abroad. So I got on the journey of writing all of the exams that would enable me to get the scholarship to travel abroad. I was stuck in this area for like a few years that I didn't get the right scholarship. I wrote GRE, this examination that allows you to get into universities in the US. And I also wrote other examinations, but it was not quite working. So I decided to enroll at home university for a master's degree in analytical chemistry. While I was doing that, I was still applying and I got some few scholarships in Taiwan and in China, but this didn't work out. Anyways, I finished this master's degree in analytical chemistry, and I thought, okay, what next now? At that time, I was already doing some entertainment projects, and somehow I got the scholarship to come to Germany. So at this point, I would say Germany chose me because I didn't really intend to come to Germany. It was just one application that I applied, and somehow this worked out easily. And so in 2014, I packed my bags from Ibadan, Nigeria, and moved to a small town in Germany called Landau. Many people wouldn't know it, but it's a suburb town, but it has a university, which used to be called the University of Koblenz-Landau, but now it's renamed and it's called RPTU. So at this university, I started my journey in Germany to study ecotoxicology, which was at that time for me a really fascinating field because initially I studied chemistry, but I was searching for a field that combined, environmental sciences plus chemistry, plus biology, plus statistics. So I was really looking for this interdisciplinary studies, and ecotoxicology gave me that. So from the get-go, I was really passionate about that. And as soon as I started this program, I knew that I wanted to design my studies internationally. Because before then, I'd applied for Erasmus Mundus Scholar. I don't know if Erasmus Mundus. It's like an European scholarship for master's degree that allows people to study in three different countries. So even though I didn't have an Erasmus Mundus Scholarship, I thought, oh, maybe I could design my study to be like that because I was really curious about studying in other European countries. So that's what I did in my second semester in London. We had the opportunity to take a mandatory internship anywhere we wanted to. So that was my first opportunity. I took my internship in a very small village in France called Forset. Probably no one would know it. So, and this was with MITOX. Now it's called Eurofins MITOX because I'd acquired the company now. So it's called Eurofins MITOX, and there I was working on terrestrial ecotoxicology, so field ecotoxicology and all of that. After this four or five months, I came back to Landau. I did my third semester and then went again to Amsterdam. So I went abroad to Amsterdam in the Netherlands for my master's thesis. I spent about a year with Kees van Gestel there. All of this basically broadened my horizon in the area of ecotoxicology. Afterwards, I moved to Leipzig where I did my PhD in ecotoxicology as well. I would say that would be like my journey to you now in the field of ecotoxicology.
Chris: 05:29
No, thanks. It's always fascinating to hear how people started out in their careers. And then, of course, you got from when you'd completed your PhD, you then started out a career in consultancy. Yes, definitely.
Fola: 05:44
That's right. So after my PhD in 2021, working in the consulting field was not my first option. what I wanted to do was to basically do some research in industry, working this high-level research in industry. So to achieve that, I thought I would design a postdoctoral office for myself. So I didn't want to apply for postdoctoral jobs. I wanted to write my own proposal because I had what I knew what I wanted to do, and then I wanted to get the funding for myself because I saw that two years to be like a training for me, and I knew what I wanted to learn, you know. So, but unfortunately, this was during COVID. It was really competitive, and I didn't really get the fellowship that I applied to. And yeah, somehow I started applying to consulting jobs through my relationship with people at SETAC. I got to learn about regulatory consulting, and I thought, oh, probably this is interesting for me. And that's how I ended up in consulting after my PhD.
Chris: 06:53
So you said there that you were gonna design your own project. So, what could you tell us a bit about that and what kind of drove you to aspire down that path? It sounds like a challenging undertaking.
Fola: 07:06
Yeah, truly. Basically, as I was finishing my PhD during my PhD, I worked on developing a method to detect neurotoxic chemicals in the water cycle. And this project was funded by BMPF, it's the Ministry of Education in Germany. And I worked with my supervisor was Eberhard Kuster, also Stefan Scholz, and also Rolf Altenburger. So I had the privilege of this, three senior researchers. And this project I did it very independently, which means I was free. So my supervisors gave me a lot of freedom to ask the questions that I wanted, to work on the questions that I wanted. And of course, at that time, this was one of the gifts I got from my supervisors and during my PhD, like independent working and thinking. And so when it was the time for postdoc, I kind of already knew the gaps in the field. And then so I took the research gaps in my field of neurotoxicology and combined that with my skills gap. Research gap plus my own skill gap in terms of the things that I wanted to learn, and that was how I came up with my postdoc proposal. And basically, the postdoc proposal was mainly to develop also like a method, but in this case, it now included measuring neurotransmitters and biochemicals relating to the to the brain and to the spinal cord in order to also detect neurotoxicity. So that's like the goal. And at that time, the intention was to work with Pim Leonards also in Amsterdam. So I was looking forward to go to Amsterdam again, uh, but fortunately this didn't work out, yeah.
Chris: 08:54
Ah no, that's a shame. Yeah, I'm not so familiar with how it works with postdocs, but I I didn't understand that you could design your own. So it sounds quite ambitious to try to develop that and quite entrepreneurial. Yeah, yeah. So, and you're keen to go to Amsterdam? It sounds like you have fond memories of your time spent in Amsterdam.
Fola: 09:14
Definitely, definitely. So when I went to Amsterdam, I would say to you now, Amsterdam is highly ranked on the cities that I've lived. It's just seven cities. Amsterdam ranks pretty high. And even though it was really short, I spent just about one year there. Walked with with Professor Kees van Gestel and also Claudia Lima. So I also had a lot of personal exploration time for myself. I was opportunity to also join like a nice church. It's called the Hillsong Church, and the Hillsong Church also gave me a lot of off-work experiences, and somehow it kind of gave me a lot of confidence and courage in actually what I turned to be today. So this is my short stay in Amsterdam. So I really love it a lot.
Chris: 10:04
Oh no, that's really nice. And you had it sounds like you had good support from also the academic supervisors there.
Fola: 10:13
Yes, definitely. Because even though before I went to Amsterdam, I'd I'd already, of course, got training in Landau with people like Carsten Bruehl, Ralph, Ralph Schaefer, Ralph Schultz, Mirco Bundschuh, I've gotten lectures from them. But then when I went to MITOX, Eurofins in France, I got practical training on the field. This was not really academic, it was more collecting of samples, like contract research work, you know. But then going to Amsterdam and working with Kees Van Gestel basically opened up my mind when it comes to research and the possibilities. That's where I learned how to read papers, how to write papers. Van Gestel was just basically he taught me everything. Even though he's a very busy person, he had an open office. Anytime working there is ready to assist you. And, sometimes I will think maybe I'm stupid because I wouldn't understand some of the concepts. But if I compare myself to Kees van Gestel, who had already 30 years of experience, he would tell me, don't worry, this is simple. He taught me everything step by step. So I credit a lot of my passion for ecotoxicology to my time there.
Chris: 11:34
Oh wow, that's fantastic. Yeah, I think we sometimes underestimate how much of an impact people can have on other people, and especially those that take the time to teach other people as well. I think that's something that is really important. And I know that Kees van Gestel is very highly regarded within our scientific community, and he also came to our interest group meeting for the persistence interest group to say some kind words about John Parsons, who also sadly passed away last year, who was another really highly regarded and well-liked scientist. So, yeah, it sounds like you've had a some really good opportunities there and s the influence of some special people to help you along the way on this journey that you've been on. And I know you said when we were speaking about this podcast that you were going to talk a little bit about some of the ecotox areas that you'd worked in. So you already started us off on the neurotoxicity research that you were involved with. Do you want to talk us a bit more about some of this and maybe help the listeners to kind of understand why this area is important?
Fola: 12:42
Yeah. Thanks. Thanks a lot, Chris, for that question. I would really glad to talk about my scientific journey. And just to quickly add, when you talked about Keith van Gestel, I was honored or opportuned last at the last SETAC to nominate Kees van Gestel for NOACK Laboratorien Outstanding Career Award. And Kees van Gestel won this award. And so for me, just spending one year with him and and spearheading this nomination for Kees van Gestel, I really felt honored, even though, of course, I I was just nominating him in addition to other people. But for me, that showed how much he has contributed to me, to my scientific journey, but also to other people. So yeah, thanks. I would like to talk about my scientific journey. And at every point in my research journey or scientific journey, I was always trying to get interested in a particular problem. So before I started my PhD, during my time in Amsterdam, the problem we were trying to solve there actually was still about neurotoxic chemicals. It was really popular that nicotinoids need to be burned. It was in the discussion that they are harming bees, and we can talk about imidaclobid, thiacloprid, and these chemicals. So at that time, Kees van Gestel and Claudia Lima, they were experimenting also if neonicotinoids had harmful effects on soil organisms like earthworms, springtails, and other arthropods. So when I just got there, for me, it was interesting. I'd already had some experience on field terrestrial ecotoxicology in France with Frank Baker. So this was really interesting for me, and I learned how to work with earthworms, with springtails, and also, soil ecotoxicology is pretty demanding, unlike water ecotoxicology. there you need to, mix the chemical into the soil, weigh the soil, it's about 28 days experiment, where you cannot really observe what is going on. So it's like a black box, and you can only observe at the at the end of the experiment, unlike water ecotoxicology, where you can observe every day. So this was really for me interesting. My takeaway there was that basically I learned how important soil is because many, most of the ecotoxicologists are focused on aquatic. We know that aquatic is the probably more important compartment, but then for me, working with soil ecotoxicology made me to learn how important that is, and it gives me like a holistic perspective of ecotoxicology. So after this period, of course, I then started my PhD in Leipzig, uh, where I was also working on neurotoxic chemicals, but in this case, it was just everything. It was more organophosphates, also neonicotinoids and the older ones. So there the question was that or the or the problem was we know that pesticides and herbicides and insecticides they are in the environment. Many of them are neuroactive chemicals, they could harm organisms in the environment, but what about when they are there in the environment within a mixture? So, what would be the effect? And also, we know that the neurodegenerative diseases that humans face today has increased. there's more instances of people, getting sick with neurodegenerative diseases. And the question was although some of this trigger could be genetic, but could it also be environment? Could it be pollution? So the goal there was to investigate which neuroactive chemicals are out there and how can we detect them. So it's like developing a method to detect neuroactive chemicals in the environment. So that was exactly what I did. Uh, I used zebrafish embryos because they are like alternatives to animal testing, and zebrafish embryos at a very early stage, they kind of move their tail, and this is their first motor activity. So, this was exactly what I was measuring during my test. I just simply measured how many times they moved their tail within one minute, and this could give me the indication if a chemical was hyperactive or hypoactive, which means increasing the activity of the zebrafish embryo or decreasing the activity. And that was the simple method that I developed. And afterwards, I then of course moved into consulting where I then had to work in the area of regulatory science. Regulatory science gives you the opportunity to actually make impact on research. And this was what I learned when I first worked at Ramboll in Munich. I basically worked on every every area of ecotoxicology, both soil ecotoxicology, aquatic ecotoxicology, mixture toxicity, and this this role at Ramboll gave me the opportunity to bring all my knowledge together from master's degree, bachelor's degree, to really apply it directly on the job.
Chris: 17:54
It's really interesting to hear how you've your learnings have evolved, and yeah, so they come together now in a consulting environment. I mean, what are the main takeaways that you've taken from your academic career that you apply in this consulting environment?
Fola: 18:11
Yeah, so for me, I would say science is not just about generating data, it is also about supporting decisions that can protect people and the environment. And for me, moving into regulatory science helped me to see the full life cycle of knowledge, from data generation to data processing and what actually happens to the data. How does how will the data help you to make decisions? How can we support the legislators sitting in the European Commission, make decisions based on scientific data? And that is all about regulatory science. And I would say I was already interested in this field during my PhD because I worked on behavioral toxicology and I was always curious, okay, all of this data that I'm generating, what is the end goal? How does this impact on people's lives? When I started working in consulting, I saw that immediately. That, all of the topics that I worked on, I just saw them immediately. And for me, it just shows that regulatory science brings the whole life cycle of scientific data generation together.
Chris: 19:22
Yeah, no, it absolutely does. This reminds me of the conversation I recently had with Watze de Wolf as well, who sort of came from a very sort of scientific background but had to immerse himself in this regulatory world. And there's always a tension there, isn't there, between dealing with the complexity of science and the uncertainty and the myriad of questions that you could go off and investigate with the need to actually make use of that information and ultimately come to some kind of decision in the end. And I think that's all part, in a way, of for people who are working in academia, if they're choosing to come out of academia and get involved in in working in in other sectors, and I know that's something that you're quite passionate about as well, right?
Fola: 20:13
Yes, yes, definitely. So I believe that the science that we do in regulatory science, the background comes from academia. So, academia is very important, but of course, we also, we are aware about the challenge that many PhDs are trained for academia, right? And after finishing PhD, they discover that there is actually not enough academic positions for them, and then many PhDs then get stuck because just in case some early career researchers are listening right now, or some students who are doing their PhD, if they are listening right now, they get stuck thinking that what they have learned in their PhD can only apply to academia, and that is absolutely not true because statistics shows us that statistics from I don't know, nature and and other organizations show that most PhDs do not work in academia, but I didn't know that when I was doing my PhD, and I'm sure many other PhDs don't know that right now because I don't want to call it brainwashing, but we are fixated doing a PhD, getting it done, and also continuing in that line. We do not see other ways to make impact with our knowledge, and it's not really our fault, it's just because that's just how the system is designed, that we believe that the research we have done can only be relevant in academia. But as you see, me and many other people who have transitioned into consulting or into industry, for me, I think I've maximized my academic knowledge and research expertise way much more in my work out of academia than in academia. So, and because I also struggled with all of these questions and transitioning out of academia, that's why today I make it a point of duty or responsibility to also educate people on this topic. And I think it's a very important topic. And yeah, that's why I'm just passionate about this to also share my story to other people and to help them in this transition because the transitioning is not easy, it's far from easy, and it it requires guidance, it requires mentorship, it requires tutelage. Yeah.
Chris: 22:58
Yeah, if you're not lucky, I suppose, and you've not got the advice of people around you or people looking out for you, then and you're so hyper-focused on your task, your PhD or whatnot, then perhaps it's difficult for people to see how their skills can be applied in other fields or in other endeavors, and also just to see the path from one area to another. So you've spent some time there helping other people with that. So tell us a bit more about what you've done in that space.
Fola: 23:30
Yeah, thanks. I said I'm really passionate about this topic, and so just to step back a bit, how did I get passionate about helping people, with career topics and and the likes? It's just simply because I myself, faced the challenge, you know. When I finished my PhD, it took me a few months before I could, before I knew what I would do next. And when I was ready, also applying, improving my CV, cover letter, all of this was a new world because academic CVs are definitely different from a CV that someone in consulting would get interested in, and so I I started to learn about these things from the scratch, which means how to I I learned how to write a CV again, how to translate my academic knowledge and expertise and skills on paper into industry relevant skills, because we have the skills. So many PhDs think that yeah, that they don't that that that that they lack the experience to work in. Actually, this is one of the problems that many people think they lack the experience, that a PhD is not the experience. However, that is not true because every single thing we have done in the PhD, from working in the lab, collaborating with research partners, all of this can be reimagined and translated into skills that someone out of academia would be interested in. But I would like to share this, which I think is really important. when I started working at Rambo, which was my first consulting role, to be sincere, I used to say this that working at Ramboll was or is uh the biggest challenge I've ever faced in my life. I mean, Chris, I know that you've worked in consulting for a long time, but switching from a PhD mindset or academic mindset into a hardcore consulting requires adaptability, it requires open-mindedness, it requires continuous learning. Because as a PhD, you think that you've learned a lot, you are kind of an expert in your field, but when you then switch into regulatory science or consulting, you just realize, oh, you just need to start learning again. And this could be a bit uncomfortable, you know. So for me, I took it as a challenge. So when I realized, oh, this is a different field. And to to be sincere, the differences in academia and consulting are really huge, just to make it clear that when we have academia, we have industry, uh, most people don't know about consulting, and most people also think consulting is industry, so they always mix it up. But when I experience consulting, I immediately separate that consulting is different from industry. And why did I say that? It's because in consulting, so I would I would give like three points why I think academia and consulting are very different, they are different lanes, they require different mindsets. Number one is time. In academia, time is a resource, it means that I could spend so much time to find a detailed solution to a problem. If I get the research question, I just need to research this topic. Even if I spend one year researching the topic, going to the lab, at the end of one year, I can produce new information or new evidence, then that's a good use of the time. However, in consulting, time is a product to be sold. Maybe you would agree with me, Chris. So, because in consulting, you need to spend the shortest time in order to offer a competitive price. Because if you just keep researching and researching, no one is gonna pay for that. So, and this was one of my challenges, right? When I started in consulting, because I was, my mindset was I need to go deep, I need to really find the solution, I need to invest time to really learn what is the issue. This couldn't work. It was not compatible with the consulting system of work because other system of work is that you need to just find the shortest way to find the solution. You still need to read papers when necessary, you still need to, do some. I mean, you're not writing, but you need to read papers, you need to discuss with other scientists, but you need to find a way to do that in the in the fastest way possible. The second point is efficiency and productivity. Um, in academia, um, productivity is measured by the depth of knowledge, which means more data equals to more interpretations, and that is what people in academia call value. If I can generate more data, I can interpret it in different ways and I can publish more. That's basically value. However, in consulting, value is meaningful data. If I'm consulting with a client, I need to figure out what is value to the client, and that determines the data that I provide. Whereas in academia, this is like the opposite. Uh, I would like to hear your perspective on on this point because this is like my own experience. it's possible that this is also different from people to people. My third point to exponentiate the difference between academia and consulting is problem and solution orientation. Um, in academia, uh, we need to identify the big problem that needs to be solved and this needs to be understood. So we spend a lot of time discussing the research question and thinking about it and understanding it because if we do not understand the problem, we cannot solve it. Whereas in consulting, we need to be solution-oriented, which means the solution to a small part of the problem is needed right now, and that may help solve other problems. So I don't think about understanding the big problem, I just need to figure out what is this small problem that I can solve that can take me forward, because if I think about the big problem, then I spend too much time, and at the end of the day, most importantly, you're not even sure if the big problem you're solving is of value to your clients. And so at the end of the day, it could be a waste of time. So I need to figure out what is a small problem that I can deliver to my client to then realize, oh, okay, does this solution align with what they are expecting? And with these three points, I would end there and I would like to hear your view since you are, you're like a senior consultant, and if my perspective is correct here or if it aligns to yours.
Chris: 30:26
Yeah, I think it's really nice the way that you've done that contrast with the academic view on things with the consultancy view. I think you're right in recognizing that consultancy is hard. I would say you kind of have a baptism of fire if you come from academia straight into consultancy because you do have to kind of almost rewire yourself, like you say. And it's it was similar for me. I went into consultancy from industry when I previously worked at Shell as a regulatory ecotoxicologist, but getting into the consultancy world was really eye-opening because of the time element, you know. Like you said, I think that I never really felt time when I was in industry like I do now, because time really is money when it comes to the consultancy world, time is money, and if you're delivering something slower than you hope to, then you're ultimately diminishing value. I say value here because there are typically two ways of doing consultancy. You can either do things on an on a rate, per hour or per day rate, and then if you're slower there, then maybe that isn't impacting you so much, but it's certainly impacting the value that you're delivering to your client, which ultimately always comes home to roost in the end, eventually, because the client is not feeling the value or that they're getting the value that they're paying for. The other way is with fixed price projects where you agree the scope of something up front and how much you're gonna get paid to do it, and then the pressure's really on because you're getting towards the end of the project and you need to deliver that report, but things are taking longer and longer, or there's certain unexpected things. So it is a real challenge. Adapt yourself to that kind of an environment. But I like to think that whilst it is a tough environment to work in, it really makes you very kind of match fit, let's say, in terms of being productive and achieving a lot, which is actually really nice, once you get really kind of adapted to being in that sort of situation. And yeah, you're right, this focus on value, this focus on problem and solution is really important because you're being tested and ultimately your work is being judged in a kind of much more active way. You get much faster feedback on things because you have those conversations with the client. Having a good relationship with your clients is really important because then you're freely able to share feedback and get that feedback which allows you to adjust things, but then sometimes you have a big deliverable and you're just not sure how it's going to be received by the client until they get it. whilst we're all very rational, we like to think as scientists that we're quite rational, but there's also a lot of feeling and emotion in how certain things are assessed, and there's also expectations, people have a mental picture of what they're looking for, and so I often think about the work as in terms of baking a cake or making a nice cocktail, is that ultimately they will judge the flavour of that meal or that cake or whatever, and you won't often easily be able to describe exactly what it is that they're tasting, but you'll know whether they like it or not. Yeah, so yeah, that it keeps me very much on my toes, at least. I don't know if you see it that way.
Fola: 33:58
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So, of course, this difficulty only occurs in the beginning. I would say max one year, you know. Afterwards, you adapt and you enjoy it, you know. I mean, enjoy it is relative, but it means that you get some satisfaction from actually the process of delivering results fast, the process of being productive, you know. But I think it's a good model of working. I enjoy it because I could also apply this model to other areas of my life. It's just difficult in the first six months, and six months to one year. I totally enjoy working as a consultant now. Um, but overall, I like to say this when I made this contrast, big, big appreciation and kudos to the academic scientist, because the research they produce, which I mean I was also once like a researcher, academic scientist, the work they produce form the bedrock for consultant. Because, when I I mean, when you think about regulatory consulting, in a lot of parts, it's just the daily work, working with study reports and all of that. But for me, I would say half of my work are the difficult questions. Those difficult questions you don't find them in study reports or like the difficult answers. This requires you checking papers, when it comes to ionizable chemicals, when it comes to surface action, for example, persistence, you know. I've had conversations with you where you've helped me on difficult topics, using the parts to so I believe those, those difficult questions that we encounter in in regulatory consulting can only be solved by support and help from academic scientists and the and the work they put all of the time. I said time is not probably supposed to be, we don't take too much time in consulting, but the academic scientists take time, they go deep in the question, they understand the problem, and this future makes us work better as consultants because without the solutions that they are bringing out, basically regulation would not progress. So, as a result, I want to give a shout out to academic scientists who are doing the hard lifting here. It's like the bedrock, so they are doing the hard hard lifting for us. Thank you to all my scientists, colleagues, and collaborators and mentors.
Chris: 36:27
100% agree. I think we can only really make progress if if we all talk to each other, try to understand each other, and pay respect to the endeavors that each of us is really doing. So, no, I think it's great that you mentioned that, Fola. And certainly from my perspective, I've I I really enjoy the collaborations that I get to have as a consultant with academic scientists, and it's always fascinating and really rewarding to see all the research that's coming out all the time in the topics that we're working in and how we use that, how that feeds into the work that we're doing on a day-to-day basis, because we're we're learning all the time. Maybe that's an opportunity to bring us on to the topic of SETAC because you've I mentioned early on that we we we've interacted quite a bit at SETAC, and you you you've recently got a little bit more involved there. So maybe you could tell us a bit about you you were recently elected to the board of directors of SETAC Europe, right?
Fola: 37:32
Yes.
Chris: 37:32
Congratulations, first of all.
Fola: 37:34
Yeah, thanks a lot, Chris. Yeah, I'm happy to be on the board of SETAC Europe. And uh, but I would like to, of course, also share that my journey at SETAC, even though it's not so long, has laid the foundation for me to be able to stand up for election at the SETAC SETAC Europe meeting. So my first contact with SETAC was in 2017. It was not the main SETAC Europe meeting, it was the SETAC Young Environmental Scientist Student Meeting. This was like a student version of SETAC, and it was in Stockholm in Sweden. And Kees Van Gestel and Claudia Lima gave me the opportunity to go there, which means the funding and the support to actually go there. So I like to say that SETAC basically shaped my career. But not only my ecotoxicology career, also my DJ career, which is interesting because this does not go together. Most people find it difficult to believe that one can be a scientist and also a DJ. But for me, I found luck when I stepped into the SETAC world for my ecotoxicology career. At the first SETAC meeting, I had a very small DJ controller, very small, so I could put it in my backpack. I just took it with me because I was a new DJ at that time. So I became a DJ in 2016 with little experience, so I was always craving for opportunities to play. At the first SETAC, I wrote the organizers that, oh, I could also do the DJing for you if you guys don't have one. I said, Oh, cool, we don't have any. And that was it. with my small machine, I'm telling you, this controller is not standard, it's very small, it could almost do nothing. But I took it with me, and during our social events, I just, played music for them with this machine, and everyone had a nice time. So immediately the students there already, some of them were part of SAC. They already wrote to the SETAC Europe organizers like in the office that, oh, we now have a DJ. So from that day henceforth, I became the official DJ for SETAC, which is really interesting. And I was a new DJ. So it was just like, the my destiny just aligned with with SETAC at that time. So the next SETAC was in Brussels, also in 2017. I, of course, presented my research, but also DJed at the at the at the student party. So SETAC helped me to refine my DJ skills. This is interesting for someone to hear because people. Will think SETAC is there for you to to basically improve your science. But for me, it's not just science, it's also the DJ, and that also shows that SETAC is just a family that you are free to express yourself. So not only science, we have other ways to express yourself. You can build your stage presence, anything you want to do, just feel free to do it. And in 2017, I was also opportunity to attend SETAC Africa in Calabar, Nigeria. And there, I did not expect that or I did not plan for that. I was elected as the student representative in the SETAC Africa Executive Council. As I said, this was like a surprise to me, but the people there found me worthy and they put me up for election. So I was elected there, and this, of course, in addition to my science and to the DJ opportunities that I've got, I now got a third opportunity to participate actively in governance for African students. This was amazing. And all of this happened in the beginning of my PhD, so it was just the right time. So in 2018, I was SETAC in Rome. I was there also as a DJ presenting as well. And then I actually didn't go to SETAC Europe in 2019, but I went to SETAC Africa again in Cape Town because now I'm an executive in the SETAC Africa branch. There, I would say that would be my biggest impact alongside with the support I got from other executive members. We founded the Student Advisory Council for SETAC Africa. Before then, I was just the student chair, but then we didn't have a council. And because I had had a lot of contact with the Student Advisory Council here in Europe, so through the knowledge and the experience I got from them, I was able to pull that off. In Cape Town, we founded that and we received a lot of people who were interested to join the SAC. That started a new wave for SETAC Africa because the involvement of students is really important for SETAC. Till that time, SETAC Africa didn't have that. So I, alongside other people, founded the SAC Africa. This was a big milestone for me, also for SETAC Africa as well. In 2019, I went to SETAC Toronto in North America, where I also was a DJ, even in North America. So I could tell anyone that I'm a DJ touring with SETAC. This is quite interesting. Then COVID hit. So COVID just broke all my good run with SETAC because in 2020, SETAC was online and I had a short hiatus before I then returned back to SETAC in Sevilla. And I wanted to apply as a board member. I actually applied, but I could not stand up for election because since I was coming from industry, there was no slot for industry. So basically, my application was rejected. And then I tried getting in Vienna, and yeah, I still remember vividly in that room where we had the the meeting, like the election meeting, and I was called to say something about myself. I was nervous, you know. But I had Kees Van Gestel there, and that gave me some confidence and boost, not only him. To be sincere, I as a SETAC member have enjoyed relationship and mentorship from a lot of SETAC leaders, to name a few. There's Kees Van Gestel, there's Thomas, who was like the former SETAC president, there's Beatrice, there is Annegaaike, just to mention a few. So and just seeing them there at that election room, I said I was really nervous, I was a bit shy, but this was a big step in my career, right? And just seeing them there, and I know I'd spoken to them before, they already pushed me on, and it just gave me some sort of boost, and I think I gave a wonderful speech, and I was elected. So thanks to God, it was not my by my own power, or I got a lot of support from the SETAC leaders, but I really want to thank God for this opportunity to serve the people. And my main mission of being on the board, as you might already guess, is to continue to support SETAC students and early career. And from my perspective, I want to introduce programs and activities that would support early career researchers, which is people who are graduate up until three years and also students at SETAC.
Chris: 44:46
That's fantastic, Fola. Thanks for telling us that story about your journey with SETAC. I think you've clearly made a really big impact and you've undergone a huge amount of growth in a short time with SETAC. And I think that really shows, well, first of all, how special the organization of SETAC is and how the people within it can help other people to grow and develop themselves. I think it also says a lot about yourself, and I love the fact that you're a musician as well as a scientist. I think that they can go hand in hand, science and music, and you handle the DJ with the PhD is really great. I think as well, I've noticed that with your personality as well, that you you are a very curious person, you're also very humble. You mentioned before about courage. I think that you continue to seek opportunities to grow and develop yourself, which I think shows courage, and also that you're a generous person, you're warm and welcoming to people and you put them at ease. And I'd say these are all great qualities of a good scientist. And and I wonder if you have any sort of reflections about where that mix, maybe you don't recognize that mix, but is there anything about your background that that that that that feeds into that? Yeah, you mentioned that you you're obviously a Christian and and you and you have that faith that obviously serves you well in life.
Fola: 46:12
Yes. Thanks a lot, Chris. First of all, for the kind words. You've always given me these kind words when we meet at SETAC or at other events, and I would say this is kind of you because positive words increases the positivity in my life as well. So big appreciation to you for always feeding my life with your positive words. So, um, yeah, you're perfectly correct that my Christian faith is a big part of my life. I don't want to get into the argument of religiosity or not, so but I'm not religious. I think what people call religious is just going to church. And for me, that is not faith, right? So when I say my Christian faith, it simply means my personal relationship with Jesus, Almighty God. And this includes praying every day, reading my Bible, and that's how I get direction and motivation from our God. And this, of course, plays a huge role in my attitude to life, in in my in my basically, I just want to be like Jesus. I try to be, I'm not perfect, but my goal is to be like Jesus, and and if I read about Jesus and the things he did, and yeah, I just try to replicate that. I'm not able to do that, but I try my best to bring this positive attitude to life. And I also basically attribute the skills that I have, or I could call them skills or talent, depending on how you see it. I I basically attribute them to God because sometimes I just ask myself, why am I so empathic? that is like emotional intelligence is something that I think God blessed me with. Um, from already when I was young, when I was in my early teens, I knew that I had that I was different in terms of a high burden for people. But but earlier in my life, emotional intelligence was a burden to me rather than a blessing, because it took me time to interpret and use it perfectly. And when I mean it was a burden, it means that I tend to kind of do what people wish rather than what I want. And this was always a burden, right? Yeah, but then now I think I kind of balanced it a bit better now. Now that I'm an adult, I can interpret it better, and I wouldn't allow people to take advantage of me. But I would say this is like the bedrock of my attitude to life, and that's also why I like to talk to people, I'm a people person, I like to engage people, I like to yeah, understand people, you know. And and you already talked about the other one, which is curiosity. I think my scientific endeavor and career basically was really driven by my curiosity. Uh, yeah, but these things are talent that I believe God gave me because as I said, sometimes I just sit down and wonder why am I like this? Why do I behave like this? And and over, when I look back, I see all of the connection, how this talent or skill that I have kind of adds up to certain junctions of my life, and I really appreciate God for that, and that's why my goal is not to you know, get accolade for myself. My goal is to try to use all of the skills, talents, and positiveness that God has given me to actually impact on other people. So always I'm always searching for opportunities to help someone with the knowledge that I have, do something for someone else, create systems that other people can use based on my experience. Yeah, these are mostly things I do in my side project, and that will be so correct. God has empowered me for all of this, and thanks for you also. God has placed people like you to keep finding this flame of positive attitude in my life. So thanks a lot.
Chris: 50:19
Oh no, thank thank you, Fola. No need to thank me, but yeah, and I really appreciate you sharing that. Like I said, I've really enjoyed getting to know you, and I think you're bringing a lot of good things to SETAC and give some great behaviours for people to emulate, and I hope many more people will learn from you in the years ahead. When you were talking, it did remind me as well. I've just been reading a book called The War of Art by a guy called Steven Pressfield. It's only a very short book, but he talks about the life of somebody who is a creative and he feeds the s scientists as well as writers and musicians into that. That caught that calling that visits upon those people, you know. It was a very nice book. It resonated a lot with me. So yeah, I thought I'd I'd mention it. Anyway, before we finish, perhaps you could just tell us is there anything you could share about SETAC Maastricht that we've got to look forward to? A DJ set, perhaps?
Fola: 51:17
Well, that's that made me giggle. Well, thanks for that question. I would like to ask if you could send me this book, or maybe not the book, but the name of the book so that I could check it out later because maybe it's helpful for me. Um, yeah, so to SETAC Maastricht, I'm also looking forward to it, most importantly, because this is the closest SETAC has been to me. I mean, yeah, maybe that sentence probably could be misunderstood. What I'm trying to say is that in terms of proximity and distance, SETAC Maastricht is happening barely two hours away from where I live, which is the closest in terms of distance SETAC has been to me. So, and that is different, I would say, which means I could decide to actually travel to SETAC every day and not stay in Maastricht, and that just brings a different feeling. So we were at the SETAC Board meeting actually this month in Brussels, and and of course, we discussed, I would say, of course, I'm still not deep into the topic, but definitely I'm sure that the SETAC staff, the amazing SETAC staff and the other directors are planning a massive meeting. So if you are not registered as a SETAC member or if you have not submitted your abstract, there is the possibility to submit like a late breaking science, I think around February, March. So I think just for people listening, if they've not gotten to learn about SETAC, hope that my experience sharing today would make you come in contact with SETAC and please feel free to reach out to Chris or me on social media if you want to learn more about SETAC. And and to your question about DJing, unfortunately, I won't be DJing. So I think there's always time for everything, even though I'm still a DJ, I'm still an active DJ in my life. So I organize Jesus parties. It's for me, I see it as an innovation that I can create parties that no one does. if you want to party today, tell her you go to normal club parties, secular parties, but because God gave me the skill of DJing, so I'm giving it back to God and I'm organizing Jesus party. So this I do regularly in the sort of way I live, and I also DJ at private events. But I think my time DJing at SETAC is over. Um, and this um, I'm glad to attend this the SETAC parties as a participant and not as a DJ anymore. And I and I think I've I've done my part, and SETAC has done its part for my DJ career as well. So now I won't be DJing there, but of course, I'm taking other responsibilities at SETAC. And most importantly, wish me luck. my goal because SETAC is so close to to us for Maastricht is trying to bring my working colleagues at Currenta. Um, and yeah, I think this would be something that I would really like to achieve for SETAC Maastricht. Yeah, but I'm sure it's gonna be an amazing conference.
Chris: 54:15
Oh no, that sounds great. Yeah, no, it'll be really nice to meet some of your colleagues from Currenta as well. Great. I'm afraid that's that's all we've got time for today, but I've really, really enjoyed speaking with you on the podcast. I knew we'd have a great conversation, and I hope the people who've been listening have enjoyed it as well. Thank you everyone who has been listening. Your time's really precious, and so I'm really glad that you've spent it with Fola and I. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please spread the word about it, tell your friends and colleagues, and I look forward to joining you next time for another discussion. Thanks very much, Fola.
Fola: 54:56
Thank you, Chris, for the opportunity. Bye-bye, everyone.
